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I agree that copyright holders should be allowed to protect their property. However, I believe that there are limits to what a copyright holder should be able to do once I purchase that content.
1) I should not be prevent, via digital locks or otherwise, from format shifting. Meaning, if I buy a CD, I should be able to rip it to a digital format and place it on my MP3 player. It is pure greed and profiteering to try and have me purchase the same album twice to have the CD and the mp3s. I'm okay with paying again to get an upgraded format (example: dvd to blue ray) but CD -> MP3 or DVD/Blue Ray -> .avi I'm not okay with.
2) DRM should be open and implemented by ALL players. If I buy a DRM'd mp3, it should be playable on any player I purchase (this would need to be on a go-forward basis). As well, it should be run by a third party outside of the rights holders.
2A) Example 1 of DRM done wrong: Walmart's online Music store went under, rendering all DRM'd mp3s sold by the store completely useless… unless you burned them to CD and re-ripped them to MP3, losing quality on already low quality music.
2B) Example 2 of DRM done wrong: ITunes music store. If I were to purchase an album from the ITMS, it would require me to own and ipod to listen on a portable player. Plus, when that IPod breaks, I HAVE to buy another IPod. When I purchase music, I should have the choice of which player to put it on. In it's current format, DRM is NOT for the consumer (as they try to spin it) it is all about vendor lock-down.
3) DRM should not prevent me from doing perfectly legal things with my purchases. Example: In order to play a DVD on linux, you have to crack the encryption. This is easily done, but according to the law illegal and punishable. This should not be the case.
4) Downloading/Uploading: I am okay with cracking down on infringement via downloading. However, it should be known that an IP address almost never corresponds to a single machine and in most cases can not be used to pinpoint the exact machine to cause the infringement. There are exceptions, but in most cases, this statement holds.
5) Quit extending the length of time until things go into the public domain. I bet we would be amazed at the things that could be done if we just allowed them to.
6) (This is just a beef, but still) Let's get online distribution under control so we can finally get sites like Pandora and Hulu up here in Canada.
7) This is just a comment: If you don't believe that money can't be made without restrictive DRM and invasion of privacy, look at the experiments done by Nine Inch Nails and RadioHead, both of who made a killing by selling their albums online at "pay what you want" pricing for high quality, non-DRM'd digital music (playable on any player, legal to burn to cd). I am certain that as time goes on, you're going to see more and more artists promoting themselves and making their money by selling their music, themselves, online and cutting out the greedy, thieving middlemen known as record companies.
Les forces économiques qui régissent la culture ne sont pas les mêmes que celles des autres biens de consommation. Produire et vendre des pommes n'est pas comme produire et vendre des livres, des DVD ou de la musique par le simple fait que l'on peut (théoriquement) reproduire à l'infini les oeuvres culturelles. Le droit d'auteur permet de créer une rareté de fait en réservant au détenteur du droit d'auteur (qui n'est souvent pas l'artiste) la latitude de reproduire l'oeuvre pour des fins commerciales. Mais généralement, et contrairement aux pommes, plus on consomme de la culture, plus on désire en consommer.
Cette perspective est en conflit direct avec la perception largement véhiculée (et fausse) qu'une plus grande accessibilité aux oeuvres culturelles a un impact négatif sur la demande de tels biens. Les écoles, les bibliothèques et autres institutions publiques sont de véritables usines façonner des consommateurs, où leurs désirs et préférences sont validés, peaufinées, attisées, au profit d'une industrie culturelle foisonnante. Contrairement à ce que l'on peut prétendre, plus les oeuvres culturelles sont accessibles, plus les consommateurs vont en consommer.
SUGGESTION: Ouvrir la définition du droit à l'utilisation équitable : Aux Etats-Unis, le "fair use" permet beaucoup plus que sa version canadienne. Sa définition ouverte puisque les fins de fair use ne sont pas toutes énumérées. Entre autres exemples, les créateurs ont droit à la satire, les enseignants ont le droit de montrer des films en classe et ce, sans devoir obtenir la permission. Ces usages sont actuellement proscrits selon la logique actuelle de l'utilisation équitable au Canada. Le Canada devrait adopter une définition "ouverte" de l'utilisation équitable comme les États-Unis, incorporer les contraintes imposée à celle-ci par la Cour suprême en 2004 dans l'arrêt CCH et assister les institutions du pays à adopter des politiques qui définissent l'utilisation équitable pour le contexte précis de leurs communautés.
valerieharvey [2009-08-21 14:28] Comment ID: 1953 Reply to: 974
Je crois également qu'un arrêt des tentatives de "culpabilisation du public", c'est-à -dire des gens qui font vivre les artistes (pas comme on voudrait, je le comprends, mais tout de même!), doit se faire le plus rapidement possible. Et que la diffusion soit plus libre encore.
C'est en utilisant des logiciels à l'école que j'ai appris à les aimer et que je les ai fait acheter à ma compagnie après ma sortie de l'université.
C'est en vivant plus près de mes artistes lors de mon éducation que j'ai appris à les connaître, les apprécier et payer pour les encourager.
Je suis convaincue que cette idée populaire "téléchargement=vol=perte de profits" est fausse. Sauf pour les artistes… Car les profits des téléchargements, ce sont d'autres compagnies qui les engrangent…
I say that if a private company wants to implement digital locks on their products then they should be allowed to. After all it's their products and they can package them anyway they like.
If that digital lock can be easily broken then that's their problem, not our governments. The government should not have to spend the time or money policing its citizens because a company implements a weak digital lock.
gnattress [2009-07-27 15:31] Comment ID: 969 Reply to: 966
I'd add that if they wish to have copyright protection on their creative work, they should also have to submit a version without DRM to the National Library so that when it comes time for it to enter the public domain, we can all be able to access an un-encumbered version of it.
pumuckl [2009-07-27 18:37] Comment ID: 1000 Reply to: 969
When would that be? With the current system of extending copyright always before it expires, no creative work will ever enter the public domain.
gnattress [2009-07-27 19:05] Comment ID: 1005 Reply to: 1000
There would be a need to ban retro-active copyright extension also.
CraigB [2009-07-27 18:22] Comment ID: 993 Reply to: 966
There are restrictions on what you can do as a producer in other sectors of the economy. You can't always "do what you like". There are certain consumer rights that you are expected to respect.
Certainly media is no different. Producers have rights. But consumers have rights too, and it's up to Canadians and their representatives to ensure that those rights are respected.
pumuckl [2009-07-27 18:55] Comment ID: 1003 Reply to: 966
Copyright is a special right that violates basic principles of competition and anti-trust. In order to obtain this right, there must be given something in return. That used to be fair use, which has been pretty much eliminated by digital copyright innovation.
Furthermore, if a producer of creative material has such right, there are dangerous consequences. For instance, they can limit the producers in the platforms or devices that the material can be used. This is certainly not acceptable. It creates further anti-trust issues and gives power and control over consumers by those producers.
Neither innovation nor consumer rights can be ensured in this way, in fact greediness and price-fixing will be the consequence.
pumuckl [2009-07-27 18:56] Comment ID: 1004 Reply to: 966
Copyright is a special right that violates basic principles of competition and anti-trust. In order to obtain this right, there must be given something in return. That used to be fair use, which has been pretty much eliminated by digital copyright innovation.
Furthermore, if a producer of creative material has such right, there are dangerous consequences. For instance, they can limit the producers in the platforms or devices that the material can be used. This is certainly not acceptable. It creates further anti-trust issues and gives power and control over consumers by those producers.
Neither innovation nor consumer rights can be ensured in this way, in fact greediness and price-fixing will be the consequence.
I wonder why, as of 27 July, the most recent formal submissions at http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/008.nsf/eng/h_00001.html are from 21 July? Has the volume of public input been greater than expected?
mgifford [2009-07-31 23:16] Comment ID: 1235 Reply to: 964
Probably just technical errors. I'm guessing that this is a home brewed forum. But don't worry if you've got accessibility problems the site's not really going to work for you anyways.
The existing copyright laws should not be modified, but re-written, from scratch, simplified and made coherent. For one, that's practically the only way we can understand what is being written. I dispute the validity of any law that is so written as to obfuscate it's meaning or that has elements that are contradictory.
pumuckl [2009-07-27 18:49] Comment ID: 1002 Reply to: 962
While I totally agree with this notion, due to the fact that copyright law is too the biggest extend international law in form of treaties, this is very difficult to achieve only on a Canadian level. All those treaties need to be re-written!
ALL authors should be aware of these 'digital licenses'. It's a WHOLE different ballgame then just 'copyright'.
http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses
canadada [2009-07-27 01:33] Comment ID: 944 Reply to: 942
Likewise, journalists, freelance or on contract, might want to consider this:
http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/07/nyt-cos-top-lawyer-doubts-that-aggregation-is-a-copyright-issue/
jberland [2009-08-05 11:20] Comment ID: 1329 Reply to: 942
Yes I have had publishers request that I sign off all electronic rights for 5%.
rinzertanz [2009-08-05 14:58] Comment ID: 1339 Reply to: 1329
And that's an outrage.
The revenue that they get from 'auxcillary', third-party rights & paid advertising will NEVER be reported to you IN FULL. Trust me.
That's why, in part, Heather Robertson laid a 'class action' lawsuit against The Globe & Mail. It took her 10 years, TEN YEARS, to get a settlement …
Google it.
I don't directly rely on copyright to earn a living. My self-employed friends and people I work for in the arts do. I constantly use and enjoy creations protected by Canada's copyright law and I am encouraged by the prospect of an ever increasing number of works being made accessible to me online. Despite some academic hyperbole, I don't see a trend towards works or information being digitally locked up. To the contrary, I think works and information are more accessible than ever before and will continue to be so in increasing volume even after our legislators finally implement adequate legal protection against people that deliberately pick digital locks to gain unauthorized access for their own use or financial gain. I understand that some producers and publishers need that protection for the digital locks they may apply to works in which they have heavily invested. However, I also understand that Canadians that have legally acquired access to those works should not be stripped of their freedoms to use them in accordance with fair dealing exceptions or their reasonable expectations concerning time and format shifting. Nor should they be worried about their personal privacy being invaded. But more than anything, I appreciate that copyright is the basis upon which Canada's professional creators are able to earn a living from making available the creations that me and my family enjoy on a daily basis, a good number of which are the best in the world. Without such basis, or a basis unnecessarily weakened by the added uncertainty of open-ended exceptions to copyright, Canada's professional creators and their creations would be negatively impacted, and consequently, so too would Canadian culture. That's primarily how copyright affects me. Like most others, I value Canadian professional creators and I understand they need more than lip service when it comes to modernizing our Copyright Act. They want people to enjoy and use their works and they need to get paid if the practise of their art is not simply to be reduced to hobby status. I hope that the Canadian Government will finally modernize our law by implementing the provisions of the WIPO Treaties and other legislative measures to help ensure that our creative community is respected and fairly remunerated.
Jkobo [2009-07-26 16:58] Comment ID: 927 Reply to: 923
There is a trend with respect to digital locks right now that's being explored by the video game industry. All you need to do is purchase a new video game console to view that trend. We can now purchase games directly from the manufactures site which are downloaded on the hard drives of these consoles and consumers are not given the proper authority to back them up legally in case these consoles fail. So one would have to re-purchase all these games they already bought which can cost hundreds of dollars. Right now in newer games with the PS3, you can't even back up your "game saves" due to copyright which is ridicules.
In one paragraph, you stated you want legislators to implement policies to restrict the picking of digital locks for "own use", and then stated the need to be allowed to do that on purchased material. I don't understand your point on that. I can understand the point for picking the locks for financial gain. That I agree with. Another point to consider, is the fact that if we were not headed in a direction where content is being digitally locked down, then why would we need provisions in law to protect some instances of picking digital locks?
ecade [2009-07-26 23:21] Comment ID: 938 Reply to: 927
"We can now purchase games directly from the manufactures site which are downloaded on the hard drives of these consoles and consumers are not given the proper authority to back them up legally in case these consoles fail. So one would have to re-purchase all these games they already bought which can cost hundreds of dollars."
Not sure where you're getting this from. Sony's PS3 allows users to copy all their save files and DLC onto an external drive (USB, etc.) and transfer it to the console hard drive later (if your game saves happen to be copy protected, you can back them up on an external drive by doing a systems backup). Meanwhile, Microsoft will allow users to transfer DLC licenses between Xbox360s, so if a user suffers a critical hardware failure, they can simply transfer the DLC licenses to a new console and re-download the DLC.
Jkobo [2009-07-27 00:15] Comment ID: 940 Reply to: 938
Actually some of the newer games don't allow save files to be copied over to external drives. The new UFC Undisputed is one such game. You get a message with respect to the save files being copy protected and can not be copied over or backed up on the PS3. It's starting to become a very common thing with the PS3 with newer released games within the past 6 or 7 months. There are a few others I've rented that have the same thing. I don't have the titles off the top of my head. I own UFC. Same with DLC such as add ons that install themselves in the game data install directory on PS3.
If the game developer doesn't allow you to back up installed game files on the PS3, your downloaded add-ons (which you don't have the option of backing up before install) will be toast if the PS3 HD fails.
Laws need to be made where companies must have "lockers" available where purchased content can be stored under an account name at the developers site to ensure purchases are protected.
Jkobo [2009-07-27 00:18] Comment ID: 941 Reply to: 940
by "add-ons" I mean additional purchased game content, like map packs, and other enhancements for purchased games.
Jkobo [2009-07-27 01:25] Comment ID: 943 Reply to: 938
Just some further explanation. On the PS3 this is what I get when trying to copy my save game files under UFC Undisputed 09.
"Copying of this saved data is not allowed"
I went to the back up utility they have. You can not backup on a network drive, it has to be through USB key, external USB Hard drive or an SD card are the options.
Since the majority of USB and SD memory cards hold considerably less then the current Hard drives available on the PS3, a purchase of an external USB hard drive is required to back up most data.
Furthermore when trying to back up you get a notice. And if you read through it, you'll see at the bottom: "Limitations may apply when backing up certain copyright protected content. Refer to the online manual for more info"
The online manual states with respect to "Saved data from playstation format software" that "Copy-protected data can not be restored"
I have recently purchased a number of game add-ons for Burnout Paradise City and Tiger Woods 2010 which upon completion had no option to do anything but install them. The save game data files do not reflect the size of the add-ons purchased, so they should be in the install directory which I need to purchase a USB external Hard drive to use for backup, when there's no guarantee it will back up my purchased content.
wsheffer [2009-07-27 21:35] Comment ID: 1013 Reply to: 927
Thanks for your comment, Jkobo. I think our respective understandings of 'own use' when it comes to legal protection for TPMs may be different. Generally, I don't take issue with legal protection for TPMs that prevent access to a work. However, I do have some pause for concern when it comes to legal protection for TPMs that prevent copying of a work. With respect to access controls, I don't think persons should be able to circumvent a TPM for their own use. With respect to copy controls, I think that persons that have paid for access to the work, or otherwise have authorized access to the work, should be able to take advantage of relevant fair dealing exceptions. With that all said, I am fairly indifferent to TPMs relative to other copyright reform issues. I have a stronger interest in reforms that help ensure creators are fairly compensated without a need for TPMs.
Jkobo [2009-07-27 23:20] Comment ID: 1024 Reply to: 1013
I completely agree with you on this. The arguments creators often put to the table is the need to put protective measures like TPM's in play due to the lack of compensation and fear of their works being thrown on the net.
However, there has been a lot of problems with respect to that argument, and industry has effectively nullified it when they have been caught on several occasions abusing TPM's and DRM. Sony installed invasive root kits that attempted to install software to see what you were up to.
Furthermore, purchased material from a whole range of sources all of a sudden has it's intended uses reduced, and then upsold to remove the locks. Greed often gets in the way of just causes in all industry, and I think what we need to do is to throw in compensation into the networks, and force in new business and ad models so that the creators can be fairly compensated without the need for protection.
Laws can only go so far when they in large part can not be enforced. It's like an arms race that ends in a stale mate. Not matter what laws or technical measures are put into place to protect creators, there will always be counter measures and ways of ensuring anonymity to break them. It's a no win for either side.
Monetizing the networks and forcing in new sustainable business models is a win/win.
sjbrown [2009-07-26 17:48] Comment ID: 929 Reply to: 923
You are concerned that Canadian creators be able to thrive. I share that concern. That is why I support Copyright.
However you seem to think that C-61 provisions outlawing tinkering will support creators. That is wrong. It will chill innovation, and furthermore it is immoral to tell someone they can't play around with media they bought.
"Despite some academic hyperbole, I don't see a trend towards works or information being digitally locked up."
It is not hyperbole. It is a real threat, preventing people from accessing the media they lawfully purchased. Sony sold CDs whose DRM software made users' computers vulnerable to viruses and intrusion. Every single DVD has DRM in the form of encryption, so thousands of Canadian Linux users must use lock-picking software to watch DVDs. Wal-Mart "turned off" all the DRM music tracks bought by their customers before February, 2008. There are more DRM horror stories. Are you sure you want to make laws that criminalize getting around this nasty software?
"I understand that some producers and publishers need that protection for the digital locks they may apply to works in which they have heavily invested."
No they don't need that protection. First of all it is a moral issue. Their financial interests should not be placed above my right to tinker. And besides, it won't actually help their business. You yourself said Canada's current laws allow creators to make a living and produce some of the best culture in the world. Our cultural output has been thriving perhaps more than ever before. How is Canada at any disadvantage to the US which has had the DMCA for over 10 years? Their draconian anti-tinkering provision has not stopped piracy, it has only chilled innovation, put a visiting researcher in prison, and blocked legitimate customers from accessing their media.
ecade [2009-07-26 23:33] Comment ID: 939 Reply to: 929
"Their draconian anti-tinkering provision has not stopped piracy, it has only chilled innovation"
Did innovation stop in the US after the DMCA was introduced? Or how about in Japan or the EU after they introduced their anti-circumvention legislation? Haven't we seen a tremendous amount of innovation out of these countries over the past decade?
I'm sorry, but the obvious empirical evidence of the past decade strongly suggests that the "real threat" of digital lock-up and chilling innovation is more imagined than real.
Chris Brand [2009-07-27 15:14] Comment ID: 967 Reply to: 939
See, for example, Laurianne McLaughlin, "After ElcomSoft: DMCA Still Worries Developers, Researchers," IEEE Software, vol. 20, no. 2, pp. 86-91, Mar./Apr. 2003, doi:10.1109/MS.2003.1184177
for examples of the stifling effect that the DMCA has had on research in the USA. It's arguably one of the reasons why more and more research is coming out of China these days.
Eo Nomine [2009-07-27 18:00] Comment ID: 988 Reply to: 967
But, see contra:
1) June Besek, "ANTI-CIRCUMVENTION LAWS AND COPYRIGHT: A REPORT FROM THE KERNOCHAN CENTER FOR LAW, MEDIA AND THE ARTS" (2004) 27 Columbia Journal of Law & the Arts 385, where, after a rigorous survey of the impact of anti-circumvention legislation in the United States, Prof. Besek concludes that (a) "technological protections are not yet as pervasive or as intrusive as critics have feared. A host of legal, technological and market factors work together to counter digital lockup and provide a safety valve to accommodate legitimate uses," (b) "existing evidence does not support new statutory exemptions", and (c) "we should allow the new types of digital deliveries that are promoted by DMCA § 1201 the opportunity to continue to flourish."
2) Patricia Akester, "Technological Accommodation of Conflicts between Freedom of Expression and DRM: The First Empirical Assessment" (May 2009), online: University of Cambridge Faculty of Law (http://www.law.cam.ac.uk/faculty-resources/download/technological-accommodation-of-conflicts-between-freedom-of-expression-and-drm-the-first-empirical-assessment/6286) who, after a rigorous review of anti-circumvention in the UK, similarly concluded that (a) the "nightmarish vision of digital lock-up has not materialized", (b) "DRM has not impacted on many acts permitted by law", (c) while beneficiaries of exceptions reported limited or no enjoyment of the exception, in many cases they were not able to provide evidence in support of those claims, and (d) beneficiaries of privileged exceptions who claim to have been prevented from carrying out those permitted acts because of DRM have not used the complaints mechanism set out in UK law.
Chris Brand [2009-07-29 15:42] Comment ID: 1114 Reply to: 988
The problem with any analysis like this is that it is, of course, exceeding difficult to measure the innovation that hasn't happened since, for example, the DMCA was passed. No doubt the vast majority of cases will never be known, because they ended with a decision at some level of management that "this line of R&D is too risky".
Eo Nomine [2009-07-29 21:35] Comment ID: 1130 Reply to: 1114
Then, by your logic, any assertion about the impact (or lack thereof) of legal protection for TPMs has had on piracy must be similarly speculative and incapable of being established.
Chris Brand [2009-07-30 15:31] Comment ID: 1160 Reply to: 1130
It's certainly extremely difficult to establish for sure, yes. That's why we see different studies come to different conclusions.
Looking at the very big picture - comparing US users of P2P networks before and after the DMCA, comparing the percentages of the populations that use P2P networks in countries with and without legal protection for TPM - gives an idea. It certainly shows that the DMCA wasn't a cure-all, for example.
rinzertanz [2009-08-05 15:13] Comment ID: 1341 Reply to: 988
I agree.
p.s. You might find this 'abbreviator' useful for long links, in future: - http://tinyurl.com
Carry on …
sjbrown [2009-07-27 18:19] Comment ID: 991 Reply to: 939
More imagined than real? Can you imagine being locked up in prison, away from your family, for months? Seriously give it a try. Now imagine that the reason for your imprisonment was because you presented a paper on an implementation of a simple encryption scheme by Adobe Systems. This situation was very real for Dmitry Sklyarov, thanks to anticircumvention laws.
How about the Princeton research blocked by the DMCA?
How about the judgement against 2600 magazine which effectively bans publishing results of cryptography research?
How about the fact that Linux DVD playing software can only safely be developed outside of the US?
How about companies blocking competitors from making laser toner cartridges and garage door openers?
How about Apple Computer using the DMCA to block RealNetworks from selling music downloads to people who own iPods?
That's just a few of the cases that actually get documented. Most don't, because by definition chilling effects cause research not to be done in the first place. For example, if I'm a chemical engineer and I want to compete with printer companies because I've got a great new idea for an ink formula, I probably won't even start development because I know that they'll come after me with anti-circumvention laws. Innovation stops in its tracks, but no news story is generated.
wsheffer [2009-08-20 11:32] Comment ID: 1897 Reply to: 929
I am not sure what your idea of 'tinkering' is, sjbrown. However, if there is a strong enough public interest and utility in your tinkering -- say for example, you do encryption research -- I trust you will be able to take advantage of an exception to anti-circumvention provisions which will undoubtedly show up in the next bill. Anti-circumvention is not simply an American thing. Check out, for example, the laws of all of the European Union countries, which arguably have stricter laws.
"No they don't need that protection." I think rightsholders that invest millions of dollars in bringing works to market may beg to differ. When you buy the media that contain those works you don't buy their copyrights. Many other rightsholders, of course, for business and other reasons, don't and won't choose to apply digital locks to their works.
jberland [2009-08-05 11:21] Comment ID: 1330 Reply to: 923
Well said!
While C61 represented that it granted rights to make media translations for personal use, it -- in fact -- did not. The specific exemptions to the personal-copy rule rendered the clause ineffective.
The right to make backups and transfer to alternate media for personal use should be uncoditional, taking explicit precedent over both shrink-wrap and/or click-to-accept licenses, and DRM protection.
Although the case against exemptions of personal copies in the presence of DRM is less the clear, the historical example of the MSN Music Store DRM scheme makes a compelling argument for allowing personal copies even in the presence of DRM. In April 2008, Microsoft sent an email to former customers of the now-defunct MSN Music store: "As of August 31, 2008, we will no longer be able to support the retrieval of license keys for the songs you purchased from MSN Music or the authorization of additional computers.