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Le droit d’auteur et vous - Discussion
Commentaires pour la période du 28 au 30 août 2009

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Commentaire

Eric Lemieux [2009-08-30 21:51] Nº du commentaire : 2140

Sur les 1.5 milliard de copie de musique qui sont effectuées chaque années, 70% de ces copies sont désormais effectuées sur des enregistreurs audionumériques qui ne sont génèrent présentement pas de redevances pour la copie privée. Ā cause d'une loi désuète, les ayants droits de la musique ne reçoivent donc pas un sous pour cette quantité phénoménales de copies qui ne sont pas couvertes par le régime de la copie privée.

Le régime de la copie privée, c'est équitable et ça fonctionne : Depuis la création du régime, c'est pratiquement 160 millions de dollars qui ont été distribués à près de 100 000 ayants droits pour cette utilisation qui est faite de leur musique.

On ne sait pas de quoi l'avenir sera fait c'est pourquoi il est important de mettre en place une loi sur le droit d'auteur qui soit technologiquement neutre, qui assurera aux ayants droit des revenus quelque soit la plateforme d'accès utilisée par le consommateur.

Il faut trouver un équilibre entre la technologie disponible et la protection des ayants droit, afin de nous assurer que notre industrie ait les moyens de continuer à fonctionner et à innover en musique.

Commentaire

DHawksworth [2009-08-30 15:51] Nº du commentaire : 2130

I believe that there is a big difference between commercial level activities and taking a song from a CD and putting it on an iPod or a mix disc for the car. I pay my levy on CD's with the expectation that I can make a backup for my own personal use. Let me make it clear though, they tighten the laws, I expect there to be a repeal of all levies/taxes/tax breaks and other subsidies from all copyright based industries that benefit from any legislation that puts their interests ahead of common citizen. If you want to play nicely with everyone else, that's fine. If you want this to be adversarial then you do not get to benefit from the public purse.

Copyright should not be forever, it should benefit the creator, but not forever. Copyright terms should no longer be extended to ensure that the body of work of human culture that is freely available can expand without every aspect of our shared heritage being commercialized and subject to restrictions for the sake of profit. Education and shared resources like libraries need to be clearly exempted from any draconian restrictions in order to preserve a bastion for the public who can't afford to pay a toll for every note, every word or every moving image every second of their lives.

At the same time, arbitrary regional blocks need to be addressed. Market pressures are already making the system bend with time shifting and synchronized release dates for 'product' (i.e. movies/tv/music). The market should not be able to push back and make these options illegal to protect their 'market'.

Net neutrality is another aspect of modern life that needs to be preserved. The internet has opened my eyes (and wallet) to content from around the planet that I deem to be of value to me. We need to ensure that if we can legitimately obtain legal content from another country over the internet that no commercial entity here can say 'no' because it might affect their bottom line.

Safeguards need to be in place to ensure that the people providing the infrastructure and provide content over that same infrastructure do not unfairly disadvantage or shut out their competition.

Overall there does need to be balance and I cannot for a moment believe that industry lobbyists, board room executives and lawyers will have anyone other than their own interests and bottom lines at heart. They have failed to adapt. They have failed to understand that convenience is the order of the day and that people want flexibility, they want choice and they want it when their schedule permits it.

In the end we as consumers, as citizens, as taxpayers should get 'fair use' provisions and the weight of the law brought against those involved in large scale, for-profit commercial infringement. Go after the people importing illegal copies from other countries and leave the iPods alone.

Finally, Cultural institutions, education and even parody/satire need to be protected in whatever bill is proposed and as much as the companies have a point that we don't have the right to buy content once and own it forever, neither to they.

Commentaire

Rob Patterson [2009-08-30 15:06] Nº du commentaire : 2125

Speaking strictly to the audio side of the debate, before the days of digital, this was a simple matter. Piracy was always possible if you had the money to afford the proper equipment. Not many people did, and piracy was easy to detect and not a real problem. When consumers were given the ability to record through technological advances and affordable equipment, such as cassette tape, we easily added a blank media levy. Now that we are in the digital age problems such as copy degradation are no longer an issue and we can copy to our hearts content without loss of quality.

We have let pandora out of the box, we will never be able to put her back. This is only the tip of the iceberg. Soon we will have DTV and the debate continues.

In my view what's really at issue here are two things. The authors ability to produce content, and the publisher/record companies ability to exploit it. This is dominoes. If I, a musician, spend large amounts of money to produce and promote content I should be compensated by the people who have decided to keep a copy of that content. If the unchecked downloading of content continues and the very first copy of something I have sold starts circulating for free, I will never recoup my costs let alone make a profit. This in turn causes me to never produce new content due to the fact that I have already used up all my money the first time. To the people who say that most of the artists revenue comes from live performance, I don't think they know what they are talking about. To quote an unknown author, "It takes about ten years to become an overnight sensation". The Rolling Stones may make lots of money by selling $150 tickets, but what about the not yet knowns playing in bars. If they are lucky they might make $100 per man per night. Sounds OK untill you factor in time spent learning how to play an instrument, rehersing, leg work to hustle gigs, loading and unloading equipment, setting up, tearing down, driving to and from, etc.. Sounds to me like less than $0.50 per hour for many years until you "make it". Musicians must really love what they do when less than 10% of them ever amount to anything. They deserve to be compensated for any content floating around in the ether.

Record companies and publishers make thier money by having authors assign thier copyrights to them for the value added task of promoting and distributing thier work. Artists can do this themselves but most don't have the knowledge, time, or money to do it themselves so they rely on the big boys. They should be compensated.

Getting down to what should be compensible and what shouldn't. If I own a copy of somthing because I paid for it, I should be able to make as many copies as I like in whatever form of media I choose without having to pay again. after all I can only listen to one song at a time in one place at a time no matter how many places I have it stored. Digital is great untill it breaks down. I have old vinyl (and clay) records that can still be played again even though my record player is broken. If my iPod breaks, I will completly loose my ones and zeros. If I lend a copy to someone should they have to pay for it? If they make a copy or never give it back, yes. Who do they pay? If I gave my only copy (CD) and didn't get it back they should pay me dirctly. If they make a copy, then return the CD they should pay someone but how would you ever be able to control that, or even prove that they didn't already have a paid copy and lost it.

I agree that CIPO needs to modify the copyright act to deal with the fact that file sharing is not going to go away. We need to be carefull though that we don't create undue hardship for consumers while trying to protect those that already have millions of dollars. If a blank media levy worked for cassette tapes and blank CDs, why wouldn't it work for a blank hard disk, thumb drive, new iPod, etc.. An idea has already been put forth to place a levy on internet access itself. This might be workable only if nobody minds that the record companies will probobly get paid for data transfer that they have no rightful claim to. Levies don't address something very important. If my song get downloaded, I will never see a dime of any levy as I am independant and not a member of Socan.

Commentaire

H Keon [2009-08-30 14:48] Nº du commentaire : 2123

As an educator we are given a small budget every year to purchase resources-- usually $500 for our department. When I go to purchase dvds or videos to enhance our classes, it asks whether the dvd will be shown in Canadian classrooms or in an American one. If it's in the US, the cost of the dvd is $30 or so. If the dvd is going to be shown in a Canadian classroom the cost is $30 plus $125+ to get the rights to show the video in the classroom. So instead of being able to purchase numerous resources for students and teachers, we can usually only buy two or three dvds (tax and shipping add up too). But if we taught in the US, there's no need to purchase the rights. How is that fair? My hope is that the new law really looks to promote learning and supports education.

Réponse(s)

contentcreator [2009-09-04 01:02] Nº du commentaire : 2188 Reply to: 2123

Copyright protection is different in every country, to be sure, but your argument that by saving $125 if you bought your DVDs in the U.S.A. you'd be further ahead is weak.

You'd have fewer resources in your average Amercian classroom, and not just the movies you are purchasing to show to your students. A similar argument would be to say that it's not fair that groceries are cheaper in the U.S., or cars are cheaper there.

If you are going to make an argument that we not pay Canadian compensation for intangible goods (that's what copyrights are), then what future do you offer the future writers, composers, performers, publishers and all the affiliated business people who are in your classroom?

Perhaps it would be fair if we paid your salary commensurate with that which an Amercian teacher receives?

H Keon [2009-09-04 01:28] Nº du commentaire : 2190 Reply to: 2188

I'm not disputing that we should compensate Canadian writers, composers, performers and writers. They do excellent work and certainly deserve to be rewarded for their hard work.

What I am questioning; however, is the need to force individual schools in Canada to pay exorbitant performance fees. The education system cannot afford it and don't we want the best resources available to educate our next generation of leaders? Why not, like the Americans, give education a break. Or perhaps, the provincial government could pay a one time copyright fee for all schools so that we could all benefit, not just a few "have" schools and students.

And regarding your rather cheap shot that "perhaps it would be fair if we paid your salary commensurate with that which an American teacher receives?" -- they're making over $100 000 in New York now. (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/fashion/01generationb.html). I would be more than happy to take that kind of commensuration. We make far less here in Vancouver and now with all of the HST taxation that is being dumped on the education system, we're going to be able to buy even less.

contentcreator [2009-09-04 02:03] Nº du commentaire : 2196 Reply to: 2190

Why don't the schools get free electricity and water from the cities in which they operate? How about desks and chairs? Pencils, paper, photocopiers, textbooks etc. are all paid for at "exorbitant" rates.

Why is it always intellectual property that is asked to subsidize not for profit activites? Because they are generally intangible goods.

You wouldn't argue about paying for a new floor in the school gymnasium, but you'll ask me to give you a break on that CD I created so you can use it to further education. The gym floor furthers education too.

What are you teaching your students if you don't respect the "property" of creators? That there is no inherent value in their creations.

In response to your comment that I made a "cheap shot" about your salary - how would you feel if we put teachers' salaries up for public debate on a web site just like this one? It would get ugly, and I could make the argument that if I didn't have to pay such high taxes to subsidize teachers' and doctors' and politicians' salaries, I could afford to do so much more for my children in all areas of their lives.

You should really wonder why my "salary" is up for public debate in the first place.

In fact, why don't you consider taking a slight cut in pay, then you'll have the extra money available in your school to pay for those DVDs? Why should it come out of my pocket? I pay my taxes already.

p.s. I believe the word you are looking for is "remuneration" not "commensuration."

H Keon [2009-09-04 02:49] Nº du commentaire : 2202 Reply to: 2196

Hello again,

Part of the reason these talks are taking place is so that we can hear all sides of the debate. Because of technological advances, the federal government is looking for a fair way to balance the needs of all the players involved.

Citizens are not following copyright laws. People are using P2P shareware and downloading music without renumerating artists. Teachers are photocopying work without the writer's permission. Videos are being shown in classrooms across Canada that a teacher copied so that their students could learn. These are indisputable facts.

The government is trying to look for solutions so that YOU can receive your fair share of the pie. I don't know why you're having such a difficult time understanding this and I don't really think it's such a bad thing. They're looking for out of the box ways to solve a pretty big issue and they seem open to new ideas. Canada's founding fathers did not anticipate the technological age and, as such, it's the responsibility of the Federal government to create legislation to deal with this new era. They're using technology to allow all Canadians a voice and I think that it's a wonderful way for democracy to shape any new legislation.

My salary is up for debate every time there's a budget in our province. I don't get to charge a fee for my services. My salary is dictated by whoever is in power. For the record our salary increases never keep up with the rate of inflation, so I do take a pay cut every year. Now that our government has imposed a 12 percent HST tax on all our goods and services, I'm taking yet another salary cut.

I'm not following your logic. I'm not suggesting that books, cds or videos be free. We purchase those already, just like the desks or floors that schools have to purchase. It would be like buying electricity, desks and floors and then having to pay a fee to use them evertime we have a class. Or perhaps I should start presenting a bill to parents for services rendered since double billing seems to be the way you think we should do things.

I pay taxes too-- your kids, and all the kids of Canada would benefit if we could try thinking out of the box and try to come up with a "new" way of thinking about finding ways to ensure that artists get the money that they deserve.

I am a published writer as well for the record.

p.s.-- I meant commensuration. See below for the definition of commensuration (www.dictionary.com)

"com·men·su·rate (k-mnsr-t, -shr-)
adj.
1. Of the same size, extent, or duration as another.
2. Corresponding in size or degree; proportionate: a salary commensurate with my performance.
3. Measurable by a common standard; commensurable.
com·mensu·rate·ly adv.
com·mensu·ration n."

H Keon [2009-09-04 02:50] Nº du commentaire : 2203 Reply to: 2196

Hello again,

Part of the reason these talks are taking place is so that we can hear all sides of the debate. Because of technological advances, the federal government is looking for a fair way to balance the needs of all the players involved.

Citizens are not following copyright laws. People are using P2P shareware and downloading music without renumerating artists. Teachers are photocopying work without the writer's permission. Videos are being shown in classrooms across Canada that a teacher copied so that their students could learn. These are indisputable facts.

The government is trying to look for solutions so that YOU can receive your fair share of the pie. I don't know why you're having such a difficult time understanding this and I don't really think it's such a bad thing. They're looking for out of the box ways to solve a pretty big issue and they seem open to new ideas. Canada's founding fathers did not anticipate the technological age and, as such, it's the responsibility of the Federal government to create legislation to deal with this new era. They're using technology to allow all Canadians a voice and I think that it's a wonderful way for democracy to shape any new legislation.

My salary is up for debate every time there's a budget in our province. I don't get to charge a fee for my services. My salary is dictated by whoever is in power. For the record our salary increases never keep up with the rate of inflation, so I do take a pay cut every year. Now that our government has imposed a 12 percent HST tax on all our goods and services, I'm taking yet another salary cut.

I'm not following your logic. I'm not suggesting that books, cds or videos be free. We purchase those already, just like the desks or floors that schools have to purchase. It would be like buying electricity, desks and floors and then having to pay a fee to use them evertime we have a class. Or perhaps I should start presenting a bill to parents for services rendered since double billing seems to be the way you think we should do things.

I pay taxes too-- your kids, and all the kids of Canada would benefit if we could try thinking out of the box and try to come up with a "new" way of thinking about finding ways to ensure that artists get the money that they deserve.

I am a published writer as well for the record.

p.s.-- I meant commensuration. See below for the definition of commensuration (www.dictionary.com)

"com·men·su·rate (k-mnsr-t, -shr-)
adj.
1. Of the same size, extent, or duration as another.
2. Corresponding in size or degree; proportionate: a salary commensurate with my performance.
3. Measurable by a common standard; commensurable.
com·mensu·rate·ly adv.
com·mensu·ration n."

H Keon [2009-09-04 12:38] Nº du commentaire : 2206 Reply to: 2196

I'll give you a specific example that I had to deal with last year. We wanted to update our school's psychology dvds-- and there's a new edition of Discovering Psychology, which pretty much every school in the United States has for their AP Psychology program. In the US, the dvds cost $389 for 26 episodes -- which we could do with our $500 budget. In Canada, the dvds cost $1500 because we have to buy performance rights. Well, the only schools that can afford to purchase the dvds are private schools, colleges and universities. Individual schools will only purchase videos, with the school board's money, if we have performance rights. Otherwise the teachers need to get creative and find a way to get the resources they need to help their students learn. What would you do? And that's just for one course in the social studies department-- there's still social studies 8, 9, 10 and 11, History 12, Law 12, Compartive Civilizations, Social Justice 12, First Nations, etc. $500 is supposed to cover all our needs for any type of resource for the year, including new technology.

H Keon [2009-09-04 17:26] Nº du commentaire : 2213 Reply to: 2206

I should also add that our school district does pay for a CanCopy license so that teachers can photocopy parts of materials and not have to contact writers for permission. And the district also pays huge dollars for a blanket movie performance rights for all of our schools. The problem is that movie distributors will not recognize that we have a blanket license so we end up having to pay twice if we want a video. The system is not working very well-- which means everyone will end up losing out.

Commentaire

kellyN [2009-08-30 12:54] Nº du commentaire : 2116

As a member of a small organization specializing in electro magnetic compatibility, copyright affects the way we publish our research and development papers. Traditionally we and our peers published research papers with the IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers) however that approach is no longer satisfactory. IEEE retains the copyright to all submissions, and its distribution is highly exclusive even among its own members.

We now publish independently, and are waiting patiently for IEEE to "open up" or be replaced.

I would like to see Canadian copyright law formulated in a way that would discourage copyright aggregation. I see no reason why any organization should require exclusive rights to a work.

Réponse(s)

Rob Patterson [2009-08-30 13:30] Nº du commentaire : 2121 Reply to: 2116

I can sympathize with your dilemma. I am in a similar (completly differant) situation. As an educator at a community college, any content I produce is considered work for hire and the copyright is owned by the college. If I choose to privatly publish the content that I myself came up with, I am infringing on the college's ownership of the content due to the fact that it was originally produced for use in class. This limits what content I am willing to produce for use in class, and my students suffer.

Commentaire

kellyN [2009-08-30 12:53] Nº du commentaire : 2115

As an individual, I am shocked and appalled that the US DOJ considers $2e6 to an acceptable settlement for online sharing of music. Law is intended to create justice, if the law considers this just, then it has failed, and I will no longer respect or be bound by it.

I would like to see Canadian copyright law formulated in a way that would allow corporations and individuals settle their differences in a fair and equitable manner. An individual should not have their life destroyed due to a copyright violation

Commentaire

Jipé Dalpé [2009-08-30 11:50] Nº du commentaire : 2114

Bonjour, je suis auteur-compositeur-interprète et en tant qu'artiste, je trouve qu'il est plus que temps que le gouvernement intervienne dans le débat sur le droit des créateurs à leurs redevances. Il faut absolument mettre en place des mesures pour que les redevances soient versées aux créateurs de façon équitable en tenant compte des nouvelles réalités du marché (piratage, téléchargement, partage de fichiers, etc.).
Il faut s'adapter au numérique et non reculer en privant les créateurs de leurs redevances. Les fournisseurs d'accès internet doivent s'impliquer et être des joueurs de premier plan pour compenser l'utilisation illégale d'oeuvres musicales.

Commentaire

FromVancouver [2009-08-30 10:00] Nº du commentaire : 2113

"Women Fined $1.9million For Downloading 24 Songs. (that cost $0.99)" Do we want this to happen in Canada?

We Canadians do not want to pay fines to companies that are 10000 times the original cost of the original goods. That is exactly what is happening in the US. Lawyers are deciding the fines, not the government. Respecting creators for their work should be in the law, but there are also the aspects of punishment. Punishment shouldn't happen in the courts and SHOULD NOT be decided by corporate lawyers. That is both a drain on the legal system and the only good that comes out of that is corporations can hire a team of lawyers to sue people. A punishment cap of 5x-100x (reasonable limit) should be place on goods that have copyright attached to them. The fines should be decided BY THE GOVERNMENT AND NOT THE CORPORATIONS.

People go on the internet since it is a source of resource, but you can break copyright laws just by being on the internet. That is not right. Making a strict system like the US is just non-sense, we might as well ban the internet. If we can embrace this concept, then it is not hard to come up with a system that is like speeding tickets. If we find people break copyright law, the person gets fined, the creator gets a portion of the penalty, and everyone will be on their way. This would be an effective solution to the current internet age and it can be a solution into the future where data will be exchanged even faster.

Goods that are brought by the consumer should not have any condition on it that allows corporations to charge per-usage fees. Unless the material REQUIRES the usage of corporation resources, there is absolutely NO REASON for the corporation to charge the usage of such material once again. There should be a distinction between distribution and usage. If corporations want to charge lifetime usage on the goods, they can do so when they set the price. After that, they lost the opportunity!!! If a person brought goods, they should be able to do anything to it (alter it to another format, sell it, whatever) and use it anytime other than "copying AND distributing" it. THE LAW SHOULD NOT ENTER MY HOME AND I SHOULD NOT BE PENALIZED FOR USING THINGS THAT I OWNED.

Finally, creators should be rewarded for their efforts, but if creators are not careful and their works leaks into the public domain via some vehicle, then the creator should sue the vehicle (i.e. the person who leaks it) and not the public (some random citizen) who knows after the fact. Creators can do many things to safeguard their work, we can't have a system where the creators leak their work and then ask for payment after their work is in the public domain. This is how the 1.9million reward (above) happened, and IT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY. At most, the creator can collect a "reasonable fine" from people who are caught with the material through illegal means, BUT THAT IS IT. NO 1.9million, NO CORPORATE LAWYERS TO DECIDE THE FINES.

Law kills creativity. Having no law would provide the most creativity and innovation to Canada, but if we do need a law, then we shall have a legal system that recognizes copyright but also the need to foster creativity. Having a fine-similar system as a penalty for copyright breach would provide a balance of power to consumers and copyright holders. Lowering the copyright length of certain types of material will also foster more creativity in this fast-moving digital age as many have already requested.

Réponse(s)

Billboardproducer [2009-08-30 14:44] Nº du commentaire : 2122 Reply to: 2113

Are you serious?
You say "Law kills creativity. Having no law would provide the most creativity and innovation to Canada"

You and many others continue to treat artists as 3rd rate citizens. I was brought up to believe that stealing is.. stealing.

Whatever you do for a living.. try doing it for free - you know -for the good of society. Get real. The year is 2009.

FromVancouver [2009-08-30 22:11] Nº du commentaire : 2141 Reply to: 2122

If everything you do is restrictive, you can not do anything that is new. This is especially true for a creator. An example would be I have the copyright of a picture of a cup. If that is true, then your "stealing" means that if you put anything on your commercials, video, or whatever, of a cup, you are violating my copyright, do you want that? You can get sued for "whatever" amount that I want. Now, I KNOW that the "Happy birthday" song has a copyright, if you are a creator, and you can't put a remix of the popular "Happy Birthday" on your video, would you want that restrictive limit placed on you? Does that breed creativity?

Law is a balance between these things, and intellectual property lawyers would tell you that less law gives more creativity, but just how much creativity do we want. This is also why there are time limits on copyright.

No where did I say that Artists are third class citizens, if their work is great, then people will buy their things, but fact remains that the public domain already has too much of what is called "copyright breaches". Are citizens supposed to discern those? Do they have the ability to?? Should they be penalized for using them since they are in the public domain? It is up to the artist to protect their material, and distributes it in a way that protects them. I believe we have the technology to do that, AND I am not saying they are doing it for free, people get fine, artist get paid, and the process is streamlined. If there are breaches, then the artist should sue the point of breach, not the users who are not aware of such laws and regulations. Using material is different from distributing material.

No one is saying that distributing material is not violating the law. They should be punished accordingly, but the person on the side shouldn't have their lives ruined.

The news bulletin which was shown just shows how ridiculous the situation has become in artists hiring a team of lawyers to punish innocent people. The amount of fine placed is 100000x the original amount, is that justice? Should people's lives be ruined just because they use things in the public domain? A small penalty, yes, but 1.9 million? Not Good. An artist would be especially vulnerable to these, and a less restrictive law system would find a balance in protecting artist and consumers alike.

Billboardproducer [2009-08-31 14:00] Nº du commentaire : 2147 Reply to: 2141

If you have a unique photo of a cup, correct, no one should be using that specific photo without your permission.

Also -YOU don't own Happy Birthday. Why do you feel it's your god given right to use happy birthday however you like? It's simply not yours to use how you like.
You can sing it at the top of your lungs, just as you can any song you like without having to pay for it, BUT - you CAN NOT PROFIT from it -NOR can you impede the copyright holder from profiting from their work. How can you not understand this?

New copyright laws are not being considered to restrict creativity, but need to be designed to protect and support it, hence fostering new innovations. We need better laws so Artists can at least HOPE to get paid for their work.

Do you know why end users are being sued for huge amounts of money? Because there are currently no laws to prohibit the illegal trafficing of copyright material!
So if you can't arrest a drug dealer… you go after the drug user. It's not ideal, but currently there is no other way to fight the real problem. So yes, the industry is trying to fight back with fear because there is no other way to fight.
SO- we need the legal foundation to fight the problem- and essentially people like YOU with your ignorant distant views (or people that are lobbying on the other side of this) are the reason that then end users are getting hit so hard.

Having said that, these user's that have been sued DID break the existing laws and should suffer consequences. People say, well everybody does it -why should this one person have to suffer? Ummm… Tell that to the officer that pulls YOU over for speeding. AND- the fact that people say "Everybody does it" suggests we have a massive problem.

Historically, there have always been highly publicized examples made of select individuals/companies breaking moral code - where not enough Legal language exists. This leads to legal precedence along the road to much needed new laws.

FromVancouver [2009-09-02 02:53] Nº du commentaire : 2167 Reply to: 2147

If the artists did a unique design, then the artist themselves should be able to safeguard them in their own way. (There is only "one" in the world - IT IS 2009 as you point out) How can artist be not careful about protecting their work, and THEN ask "someone" to pay for it with their life-savings? It was the mistake of the artist to not get a proper channel to profit from in the first place, AND even if the design did leak out, you still have to prove that the person who did it got it "illegally", AND THEN you ask A PROPER penalty (how is a penalty of 100000x the original selling amount even proper???).

Secondly, these lawsuits are not directing at the source of the problem, which is the leakage point. Its like this. I have a person [Mr. A] who are handing out flyers of a "unique picture with copyright" to random people. Mr. A then leaves and the copyright owner of the "unique picture" comes and sue everyone who has the "unique picture". How is that even come close to a justice system that is fair??? As I have already commented, USAGE IS DIFFERENT FROM DISTRIBUTION. GO AFTER THE DISTURBER, in this case, Mr. A. Drug dealers are notoriously hard to get, but police concentrate on them anyways because it is they who is the source of the problem, not the drug user(they are only a part of the problem). Although I do not encourage them, but there are even drug houses in Vancouver.

Speeding is a problem in most city. I can almost say >60% of the drivers drive above the speed limit. Can we catch then all? No, but we can have a penalty system that "encourages" people not to do it nonetheless since we can't catch them all, isn't this the same with copyright laws?? (Note: are speeding tickets 100000x the price of a person's life which is
$1million by some insurance agency?) Police can only do so much. How can you say with confidence that every picture that you downloaded (via browser, whatever) is not copyrighted, and that an avatar that you used is not copyrighted by some person in china?? or some lyric that you thought of is NOT already used in some songs? You can't, you can only know after the fact. This protects every person who uses data, and not skew the power to corporation who have teams of lawyers. As I have already commented, the penalty system should be controlled by the government and not the corporations.

Billboardproducer [2009-09-02 13:02] Nº du commentaire : 2170 Reply to: 2167

I think you're missed my point. Perhaps I wasn't clear.

In Canada it is illegal to distribute narcotics. The Police can and do focus their time looking for the dealers more so than the users because that is the core of the problem.

Right now Canadian law is extremely murky with regards to illegal distribution of copyright material.
What I'm saying is it's not clearly illegal to distribute copyright material that you don't own.
It is almost impossible to sue the "Drug Dealer" of Music. As soon as the laws are amended - then the end users will no longer be the focus.

With regards to a drug dealer, they are taken to a criminal court -charged and sentenced. With Copyright infringements they are taken to civil court for damages.
Remember OJ Simpson was NOT guilty of murder -but still had to pay Millions of dollars in damages?

Lastly you say "the artist themselves should be able to safeguard them in their own way" and "How can artist be not careful about protecting their work?"

In the age that we live in… it is impossible to safeguard one's work. How can it NOT be stolen? You seriously think a musician can safe guard his work?
First and foremost -the law needs to be clarified so that at least we say in principle - that it is illegal to steal. It doesn't really say that right now. It's too murky and thats why the laws have to change.

AND- no one accidently ends up with thousands of illegal downloads on their computer. You have to search, find and download them. Everyone knows it wrong, but people don't care -and they are running the risk of getting sued. I hope you don't continue to download illegal music -but if you do -be prepared to face the consequences -because until the laws change- YOU- just might get sued by an Artist for several million dollars. That will screw up your life- just as many artists have been getting screwed over the last several years.

sjbrown [2009-09-02 17:58] Nº du commentaire : 2174 Reply to: 2170

Just a nitpick, but it is possible to "accidentally" end up with infringing files on your computer. Consider passive applications such as Tor and Miro. Consider computers that allow uploads to be made to them. Consider computers whose security has been compromised.

Billboardproducer [2009-09-02 23:43] Nº du commentaire : 2180 Reply to: 2174

No doubt that can happen. But I think it is highly unlikely that an innocent person would be charged -altho sadly innocent people are sometimes convicted of crimes they didn't commit.

FairUseInCanada [2009-09-05 13:32] Nº du commentaire : 2244 Reply to: 2180

So the fact that a wrong is systematically being acted out elsewhere makes it right in this case? Wonderful argument, my dear "intellectual" (reference to another post).

Let me tell you how it is: both those sharing and not sharing media for NO profit are innocent, and there is NOTHING wrong with sharing. Comprendre?

As said elsewhere, we just need to make sure that the channels of distribution have provisions in place so that media producers get compensated via levies for potential non-profit sharing of their content. End of discussion!

Billboardproducer [2009-09-05 16:39] Nº du commentaire : 2251 Reply to: 2244

I suppose a drug dealer can sneak something into your gym bag without you knowing. It just doesn't happen very often.

Whether sharing for a profit or non-profit makes no difference. When you purchase intellectual property, you are NOT purchasing ownership in the copyright.

You're suggesting for example, if you buy a book -proceed to photocopy it 1000 times and give it away for free to a 1000 friends -that this is your right.

I believe that it is NOT your right because this is interfering with the Copyright owners ability to do business.

FairUseInCanada [2009-09-05 18:17] Nº du commentaire : 2255 Reply to: 2251

I am aware of those examples, as I have mentioned some of them elsewhere on these forums (you can read about them if you click on my username). For example, the ability to copy books existed since a photocopy machine was invented, but there was never a need by people to resort to sharing in the way that movies and music are shared, as the books are available via libraries and anyone is free to access them with a library card. Also, the cost of printing a book is high (think about all the trees) and most old-release books get discounted appropriately and are quite affordable to purchase if you would like to own one. Moreover, books of current value and current information such as textbooks get updated regularly with new editions to justify their higher cost, but even those get discounted once they are not current anymore.

The movie and music businesses, which also create material of cultural value, do not bother with posting their work in libraries, as they have done some time in the past. They also do not discount older music - they even try to create artificial demands by withholding some items and then selling them at a premium. For example, think about Disney and their pitiful strategy of manipulating kids with fairy tales that in all fairness should be in public domain by now. Finally, they do not update most of their material material, unless it comes down to format conversion, where they do not give any discount to owners of previous formats and they charge outrageous prices with superb markups to capitalize on the early adopters of the new technology (have you heard of Blu-Ray or DVD before that). So why would we as taxpayers offer these businesses more copyright privileges where they cannot offer us simple respect in return?

Billboardproducer [2009-09-05 19:19] Nº du commentaire : 2257 Reply to: 2255

My record label offers all of our product -as do many labels to the libraries across Canada. They do have some titles, but often don't request them unless there are enough demands. I see many commercial movies at my library although I'm not sure of their cultural significance.

Also- we sell off most of our non-current good old fashion CD's via Universal Music for a clearance price just the same as a clothing shop would to move out spring fashions in the summer.
This however creates the image that these titles are not worth as much just because they are a year old -so I waiver on my feelings about this.
Realistically however the other option is to have them returned to the warehouse without selling them at all.

These things I mention though are choices -and the important thing about proper copyright laws is to allow me the ability to operate my company the way I see fit and not have to restructure based on what a pirates dictate the market to be.

As far as "Disney and their pitiful strategy of manipulating kids with fairy tales that in all fairness should be in public domain by now."
Again- just because they've created a classic -doesn't mean that the copyright should belong to the people. That feels too socialist, and this type of thinking just doesn't apply in any other business that I'm aware of.

FairUseInCanada [2009-09-05 19:45] Nº du commentaire : 2259 Reply to: 2257

Yes, resort to political nonsense such as invoking the "socialist" bogeyman if you cannot win an argument through rhetoric. How pitiful! And typical for a corporate lobbyist, you ignored all the points that I made about DMCA and it's draconian nature, my dear "intellectual".

Disney should release their classics into public domain since they were created many decades ago and since the topic of those stories is anyways based on a reinterpretation of stories already in public domain. The fact that they prey on our kids also adds insult to injury.

As for choice, your "choice" implies regular citizens such as myself not having one - so I simply do not give you that choice. You can attach a whatever term you want to that but I will tell you what it is: democracy. If you don't like Canada and our democracy, you are free to try your malicious lobbying elsewhere.

FairUseInCanada [2009-09-05 13:17] Nº du commentaire : 2241 Reply to: 2147

"Much needed new laws" for what? So we can prosecute 12-year olds sharing a few songs over the Internet? Or bankrupt families over their children watching a movie or two over the Internet? Well the media monopolies already tried that and our sensible Canadian judges told them that in our democracy, we do not give you that right to maliciously prosecute. If you want act out that filth in some other jurisdiction, where frivolous lawsuits are possible, you are more than welcome to try. But that kind of attitude will not pass in Canada.

Now they are trying to go over the judges and influence the Government itself but these forums and submissions indicate that Canadians are decisively against draconian and backwards copyright legislation.

And "Billboardproducer", don't forget, it is we the citizens that give you the privilege of having that copyright, not the other way around. If anything, we should remove some of those privileges for those who do not appreciate them or try to abuse them. That will discourage future attempts to undermine our freedoms and rights.

contentcreator [2009-09-04 01:47] Nº du commentaire : 2193 Reply to: 2113

Actually, the fine was determined by a jury, not a judge, and it was increased upon appeal. I believe the jury was trying to make the point that stealing is stealing - whether your steal a pair of running shoes or a digital copy of a song, it's illegal.

Just because you can't actually see or touch the resources, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Do you work for free? What resources are required for you to do your job? If I can't actually see or touch the time you put into your work, then why should you be paid to do it?

FairUseInCanada [2009-09-05 13:25] Nº du commentaire : 2243 Reply to: 2193

Let's put an end to this nonsense once and for all. Theft is about loss and there is no loss incurred here.

Someone sharing a media item with someone else for non-commercial reasons is NOT theft. Nothing was lost by the producer, not even a business opportunity as there is no way to prove that the person obtaining the item (say an MP3 song) would have even thought about buying that item if it wasn't available via sharing. The only gain is the cultural benefit on the side of the receiver, who gets to enjoy a part of our culture that they did not or could not enjoy before. So stop calling sharing "theft"!

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dnewton [2009-08-29 23:58] Nº du commentaire : 2112

there needs to be consumer protection for both format shifting and preservation/sharing of rare materials.

regarding format shifting: i believe it has been covered very well already: consumers, when buying a media product, don't consider themselves to be buying a license to use that product in a particular format or on a particular device. they are buying the content. they should be able to view/play this content in any form they like, transfer it to any media they like, and make as many private copies as they like.

regarding preservation of rare material: as formats change and become obsolete, a number of valuable works -- albums, tv shows, movies, etc. -- become all but unattainable to the general public. if the copyright owners don't choose to publish these works in new formats, there is real risk of them becoming completely lost. fans -- often the only source for copies of these rare works -- should have the right to preserve these works in more modern formats and, providing they are not commercially available and no profit/money is sought, distribute them. for this reason, i think there needs to be specific provisions for this type of preservation/archival work (even at the amateur/consumer level) OR there needs to be much shorter timeframes in which copyright holders have the ability to commercialize their works before it enters the public domain. e.g. a work that hasn't been available commercially for 10 years would become public domain.

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joeyjoejoe10 [2009-08-29 21:59] Nº du commentaire : 2111

The very fact Canada is even having a discussion around changing our copyright laws to more closely match the USA sickens me. Almost the entire rest of the world is FAR more liberal with copyright laws than Canada is right now, and we are discussing making them even more stringent? Shame on our government for even considering it.

If citizens had even 1/10 the amount of pull business does here we may have a shot at doing the right thing and actually RELAXING our copyright laws to match the world as a whole, but instead due to corporate money we are talking about further strangling the market so even more money can be made at the expense of innovation and real progress.

I'll say it again. Shame on you! Start relaxing our copyright laws rather than even investigating whether they should become draconian like in the USA. Canada is a beacon of common sense in North America and that is why I love it so much. We need to continue to lead the common sense path and not get sucked into the rubbish that has been going on south of the border for the past decade.

So to summarize. Do we need copyright reform? Absolutely. So lets look to our friends in Europe like Denmark or Sweden for a new model to build off of rather then take a giant leap backward.

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rinzertanz [2009-08-29 17:30] Nº du commentaire : 2110

I am in the midst of reading this very engaging & enligntening book entitled, 'Bozo Sapiens: Why to Err is Human'' by Micheal Kaplan (a filmmaker situated outside of Edinburgh, Scotland) and his mother, Ellen Kaplan, (a mathematician living near Boston, U.S.A. )

This delightful & scholastic 'mother-son' tome attempts to bridge many abrasive inconsistencies apparent in the digital 'economy' today, especially those between 'content providers' & 'consumers'. I wholeheartedly recommend it as a 'read' to those serious about the ramifications of the evolution of this pervasive technology of the 'internet' on our species.

Included in this cross-disciplinary work of neuro-lingusistics, visual perception, pharmacology, current brain science and hilarious anecdote are striking affirmations about our fundamental human NEED for 'social cohesion'. This stands as a direct attack on the 'US' versus 'THEM' mindset that seems so prelavent within this copyright forum.

Please, as this forum 'winds up', and we move on with our respective lives as either 'content providers' and/or 'consumers' (-regardless of any 'legal' recommendations-) please REMEMBER we're all in this 'together' and as such, it behooves us ALL to 'try to get along'.

Consider that without 'social cohesion' there is no 'culture', and, without 'culture' there is no 'identity', and, without 'identity' there is really little to no 'purpose' … Everything would otherwise become fractious, self-preserving & volatile as we individually 'hunker down' to protect what little we do have in the face of 'overwhelming uncertainty'. All should consider this solitary & isolating 'outcome' if we STRIDENTLY adher to our respective 'positions' of 'US versus THEM'.

Compromise is required.

As the Kaplans suggest, we need to use 'radical' but effective 'social tools' like 'CRM' aka 'cockpit resource management' to navigate to mutually 'safe territory'. Meaning, we must separate out and share tasks in ways that ensure that at least TWO MINDS will always be available in situations where ONE could err fatally …

Food for thought.

'Bozo Sapiens' - a literary 'tour de force' and remarkable cross-generational collarboration of combined synthesis & analysis - available via 'bloomsburypress.com' and/or get it from your library.

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joeshmo [2009-08-29 03:50] Nº du commentaire : 2107

Regarding music, I agree with the comment that there has been an increase in live performances by artists. In my small town I have noticed a large increase in the number of live performances by local and out of town musicians whereas ten years ago most clubs were playing recorded music by international performers. I don't know if this is due to the internet or whether peoples tastes have changed. Either way, it is good to see the local musicians getting work and to hear the talent. My advice is to not fiddle with something that is not broken.

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smith from sweaburg [2009-08-28 20:59] Nº du commentaire : 2102

As both a user of copyrighted materials and a partial owner of copyrighted materials of my creation, I am aware that ideas are valuable. This likely applies in audio, video and print media. It used to be that print was getting seriously hammered by copyright violation. Now, people don't even want the words on paper; books and especially newspapers are in serious trouble with electronic sharing of information. But, it is not that people are copying and sharing traditional news; the idea of news has altered to fit the new medium. If the music industry believes they can resist technology, they are mistaken. In fact, they are aware that the technology for the creation, recording and distribution of music has radically altered. Some artists are jumping ship from the studios and labels to do on-line what used to require massive stores (Sam the Record Man is gone, long gone).
Similarly, and this is an extreme case, are you really going to sue every kid who sings "Happy Birthday" to a friend? Certain things will be appropriated to the common. It's normal. Stop crying… Here have a "kleenex".

Nowadays, musicians are making their money from performance. It's likely for the best as this helps restore their status as performers. And this phenomenon is happening to small independent bands and to monsters escaping the music machine. Madonna comes to mind in the last category.

Recommendation: Recognize that restrictive legislation will not be enforceable, that technology is in the process of making traditional music sales archaic and unnecessary, and that creators of ideas should harness new technologies to help them create more ideas.

Therefore: create funds to support Canadian artists and creators as well as supporting research into new platforms for the diffusion of artistic material. Since that public support would be in place, the public's right to it will not be an issue.

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Alan Martin [2009-08-28 17:42] Nº du commentaire : 2099

Perhaps what really needs to be reformed is contract law, not copyright law.

Would we have standard video formats like DVD and Blu-ray locked down with DRM, if consumers had any real negotiating power vis-a-vis the large companies that distribute content? Would artists be paid cents on the dollar for their work, if they had real negotiating power with the same companies?

(There is plenty of precedent for solutions, e.g., in consumer protection law, or even in collective bargaining for employment contracts.)

But if we are to reform copyright law first, then we should at least make sure that whatever rights the law grants to consumers, contracts and digital locks cannot take away - exactly the opposite of what was done in Bill C-61.

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DavidBoon [2009-08-28 16:51] Nº du commentaire : 2097

I am an IT professional working in Toronto. I have worked in Europe and Asia in my life, and owned mobile phones in all of the above.

There are no other countries, even ones with oppressive regimes, that force their population to pay for a new phone when they decide to switch providers. NONE!! This is a tactic that serves only to help the mobile phone companies get more money out of their clientelle.

I, personally, find it scandilous that you allow mobile phone companies to do this to us, and during an economic crisis like this, you are allowing for some very hard done by people to be taken advantage of.

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Russell McOrmond [2009-08-28 14:16] Nº du commentaire : 2090

Mr Nanos,

While I know that these forums already have many messages, there are other articles you should include in your analysis. The Georgia Straight has been running a series of articles. I'm not endorsing these article, given as an independent software author I strongly disagree with the views from the major label recording industry as well as the entertainment software lobby who seek to put people like me out of business (as well as their frontal attacks on property and other rights). I also disagree with the government imposition of business models, as promoted by lawyer Marian Hebb.

I'm simply believe that these articles, and the comments to them, should be considered.

Darrell Evans: Challenging the B.C. government's abuse of Crown copyright
http://www.straight.com/article-249911/darrell-evans-challenging-bc-governments-abuse-crown-copyright

Russell McOrmond: Canadian law should be updated to protect us from digital locks
http://www.straight.com/article-249403/russell-mcormond-canadian-law-should-be-updated-protect-us-digital-locks

Graham Henderson: Canada needs copyright rules that foster digital music market
http://www.straight.com/article-249203/graham-henderson-canada-needs-copyright-rules-foster-digital-music-market

Ferne Downey: Performers seek made-in-Canada consensus solution to copyright
http://www.straight.com/article-249171/ferne-downey-performers-seek-madeincanada-consensus-solution-copyright

Danielle Parr: Canada's video game industry needs copyright law that protects digital locks
http://www.straight.com/article-248821/danielle-parr-canadas-video-game-industry-needs-copyright-law-protects-digital-locks

Bill Henderson: Voluntary music file-sharing fee would benefit songwriters and fans
http://www.straight.com/article-248110/bill-henderson-voluntary-music-filesharing-fee-would-benefit-songwriters-and-fans

Geof Glass: How Canada's new copyright law will affect you
http://www.straight.com/article-247860/geof-glass-how-canadas-new-copyright-law-will-affect-you

Elizabeth May and Griffin Carpenter: Canada needs principled approach to copyright
http://www.straight.com/article-247597/elizabeth-may-and-griffin-carpenter-canada-needs-principled-approached-copyright

Marian Hebb: Collective licensing would help Canadian writers get paid on-line
http://www.straight.com/article-241403/marian-hebb-collective-licensing-would-help-writers-get-paid-online

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Julien Fortin [2009-08-28 12:22] Nº du commentaire : 2087

Bonjour je me nomme Julien Fortin, je suis co-propriétaire du jeune entreprise d'éditions musicale.

Je crois que le droits d'auteur permettant la protection des oeuvres de nos artistes est la colonne vertébrale du patrimoine culturel.

Comment voulez-vous qu'un artiste vive de son art s'il n'est pas rémunéré a juste titre pour son travail et surtout comment peut-on concevoir qu'il puisse continuer a créer s'il doit travailler 40 hrs par semaine pour arriver a se loger et se nourrir.

Le canada accuse un retard considérable a l'égard de d'autres pays dans le monde en ce qui en trait aux lois sur le droits d'auteurs.

A quand la protection des oeuvres au niveau de la téléphonie cellulaire qui se serve de la musique pour vendre leur produit et qui sont devenu par le fait même une industrie étant capable de transporter et de diffuser de la musique. Aucune lois présentement ne réglementent cette aspect.

A quand une loi qui reconnaîtra que le ipod est un outil de diffusion de la musique. Et qu'il est primordial que les ayants droits soit protéger.

A l'exemple de la copies privé plusieurs mesures dans ce sens peuvent être voté afin de remettre ne serais-ce qu'en partie aux artistes ce qui leur ai dû, ce qui compose une partie de leur salaire, ce qui leur permet de continuer a créer.

Il faut que le gouvernement canadien nous aide à trouver et à mettre en place des outils efficaces pour contrôler l'exploitation des droits, pour les faire respecter; les fournisseurs d'accès Internet devront faire partie de la solution comme tous les autres maillons de la chaîne.

Il faut mettre en place aussi des programmes de sensibilisation et d'éducation du public. Afin de bien les informé sur les enjeux de la protection du droits d'auteurs,sur les impacts sur les ayant droits et sur l'industrie de la musique et du divertissement en générale.

Il faut trouver un équilibre entre la technologie disponible et la protection des ayants droit, afin de nous assurer que l' industrie de la musique et surtout que les créateurs ait les moyens de continuer à fonctionner et à innover.

Merci !

Julien Fortin

Commentaire

Harold [2009-08-28 10:18] Nº du commentaire : 2086

Our copyright laws seem to be close to being fair to all concerned now. I believe that fair use should be one of the things that should be guaranteed in any modernization.
Some countries have been trying to unfairly limit quotations from copyrighted materials to ridiculous limits such as 5 words. I believe that this type of thing is an effort to limit education, stifle debate about controversial subjects and stop satire and parodies that cause people to think about what they have read and heard.
Digital rights management must be allowed to be bypassed also, because there have been too many cases where companies have either used DRM to force people to buy a certain brand or type of device to use content that they have bought, or the company has stopped using the DRM for one reason or another and people can no longer access the content that they have bought and paid for. There have also been cases(the Sony rootkit for one) where the DRM itself has caused damage to the device used to view or otherwise use the content paid for. DRM has also been damaging to educational institutions trying to use content in courses. This all seems to indicate that there may be no case for DRM to be used at all and maybe copyright law should bar its use, in order to allow fair dealing. The only possible use for it would be to prevent copyright infringement and that would have to be carefully specified as different from fair use, which must be allowed. Fair use should include the ability for people to make backups of whatever type of content they have paid for.
Another disturbing trend is the continuing effort to extend copyright beyond the lifetime of the creator of the works. Perhaps in cases where the creator dies early, this would be unfair to the family of the author of the works, but in most cases it enforces unfair limitations on the derivation of other works from the original by other people, thus stifling creativity. This is most concerning in the field of music, because, in the western world at least, there are only 88 notes used and sooner than anyone thinks, all variations of these notes will be used. Therefore the field of music will die.
Another concern of mine is the possibility that laws will limit new forms of business models and possible new creative forms of expression, so there has to be some form of flexibility in the law to allow for unforeseen cases. This will be difficult to allow for, but by not limiting technology by ironclad laws, the possibilities will still exist.
Crown copyright should be abolished and any works, laws, studies and other information brought forth by government should automatically be put into the public domain because the public has commissioned it. Because the public has paid for it, the public should have all the rights to such works.
ISPs should not be held responsible for information available through the internet or any technology that may replace the internet. Also any takedown notices given to content suppliers must be checked to make sure that the author of the takedown notice is the actual owner of the content. In some countries this has not been done, with laughable results. Some countries also are trying to use "3 strikes" laws to disconnect customers on mere suspicion of copyright infringement. I myself use torrents to make linux ISOs available to other people (which is entirely legal in any country) and don't want to be disconnected because I am suspected of copyright infringement because of the technology I am using.
Also, libraries should be allowed to loan books digitally. There is a possibility of a real case for the use of a form of DRM here that only allows the book to be used for the usual 14 day loan of a library book, possibly deleting it after 14 days.
Educational institutes using distance learning need to have learning materials available digitally also, so provisions should be used to allow for this.
Many creator groups have asked for rights management information protection. This is not an area I have much information on, but it seems
reasonable to me that this should also be considered.
Unreasonable statutory damages provisions for non-commercial infringement is an area that should be looked at also. I have no problem with large statutory damages for cases of commercial infringement, but non-commercial infringement should be limited to something reasonable that the content owner has a chance of collecting, unlike some of the damage awards I have seen in other countries, which seem to be unreasonable and unnecessarily punitive.